Tobin

6/28

I looked at making the plan more buildable and less engineered. The idea is to make the box a 24'x24' square. Then the 4 valley rafters land on the 4 corners of the box. The corners can hold up the valleys and we will have a center post anyway. Once the framing is done and the roof is felted then just go to demo.

Take off the entire existing roof and put it in a dumpster. Say we will use the existing walls but we'll put them in the dumpster too.

Re-frame the first floor walls. Put in posts for the hip in the exterior walls Frame a new front gable as a true gable with real valleys. Frame a new roof and then roof the whole thing.Plans are enclosed. I'll revise the schedule.

6/27

Could be an interesting structure. Or impossible :)

Start thinking about it. Here's some things to think about.

As a 21' box it was kind of like the garage. For small roofs back 'rules of thumb work and a single 2x12 valley was all that was needed. I was reading last night that for every foot you extend the valley rafter the load increases to the 5th power. For the 24' box the valleys become single lvl117/8's.

In the most normal roof you keep the walls from bowing out with the ceiling joists. It gets tricky as the point load at the base of the valley gets big. (2/3) of the valley weight) It wants to push out the corners. But we should be able to make that OK with some corner strap fab.

The tricky part isn't the west valleys, its the east valleys. With the ~ 20'x24' box they land some 4' into the old structure way up in the air at the original ridge. Some how we are going to have to trussify the east edge of the stair landing to resist the movement out of the valleys (among other directions they want to go south and north).

The really tricky part is the hip rafters running from the old ridge to the new ridge. How do you keep them from bowing out? On the north side you could build a continuous post to the ridge and maybe have this structural tie from the top of the post to the stair platform just right of the stairs. That would be weird but maybe cool. The south hip is trickier as we started to see last night. Perhaps there will be a rod running across the ridge from base of south hip to base of north hip. Or maybe there is another solution or maybe its impossible.

This, it seems is the next thing to figure out.

Call me when you get a chance. Im out at 1:40

Dad

http://www.johnlscott.com/propertydetail.aspx?IS=1&ListingID=300069139

repeat of question: where is the drain?

Building an addition is way more difficult and time consuming than 'I have a backhoe handy why not'. The things that are most difficult to do in additions is make the connection to the existing structure so the floor and every thing line up and the roof works. You could frame a new house in the time it takes to detail the connection from one box to an existing structure. The house next door is ugly. You don't fix that by building to it. Its the south side. A couple of fruit trees would be more valuable as a buffer than would building a bigger box.

Critique of your plan:

Hard to talk about a plan not to scale, you got a scanner?

in general:

It seems big and boxy. Lumber is expensive. I don't think the roof over the porches fixes the boxiness.

If you don't do design development with closets, then you get in trouble later.

1st floor plan:

It is incredible to me how people end up using so little of their houses. I think it's because rooms are too big and spread apart. A home really only has one center and that's where people want to hang out. It always includes the kitchen. Here your living room area is so remote from your kitchen. The space between the woodstove and the table and the space between the table and the stairs seem too big, too uninteresting and too expensive. The dining room table is the focal point of the house. It seems odd to me.

My tendency is to think of the stair as the core of the house. Your eye move around and up.

Your structure and walls are there to create spaces. Interior walls are responsible for creating spaces on both sides. The walls of the bedroom and mudroom do create those spaces but do little (or actually work against) creating spaces in the main living area, it feels like they jut into it.

Porch seems so skinny. Even 6' seems too narrow, 8' seems better; you can fit around a table, walk by another person. The other challenge is solar gain on the south side. Ideally the overhang/roof structure shades the house in the summer but lets in all the winter sunlight. South west is more problematic, I'd rather be shaded by a tree than have sun in the summer afternoon. In winter when the leaves are gone you can take all that gain.

2nd floor:

3 new full baths? There goes most of your $30,000

The 2nd floor bath on south side is under the existing roof plan. You need to reconfigure the roof to accommodate it.

I find the common space to seem large, awkward and uninteresting.

Critique of my plan:

in general:

I think the first floor plan works and the second floor plan doesn't. The second floor really needs to be 3' wider and 2' closer to the garage (still 6' away) in order to accommodate 2 bedrooms a bath a study and lots of closet space.

1st floor:

I think the main problems are what feels like inefficiency of the space outside the bathroom and bedroom. Perhaps the bedroom closet would be better off on the bath wall. I think you could grab more of that space for the bath.

2nd floor:

11' seems to be a better minimum for bedroom dimension, not including closets. 3' wider takes you taller too. Maybe tall enough to think of a little loft in the center.

Buidability:

The game as I see it is to build the smallest amount possible and get the biggest bang for the buck. with $35,000 you are in the business of cost optimization, big time.

If you start fucking around with adding boxes on multiple sides you'd be better off blowing up the existing house, You'll spend less time and money. Unfortunately you won't have a place to live.

Which brings me to the other constraint. How to build this while you live there so the dog and the girlfriend don't dump you before you finish it (if you ever do).

First you keep it simple. Second you keep the work are as localized as possible. Third you divide the work into

This is how I thought of building what i drew:

• plans filed day after closing

• plans approved 7/14

• phase 1: big box
  • a: (july 17-23) sub this out if you can get it done this week

excavation/foundation behind house. Probably only need 3 sides; along the existing u just need 2-3 2'x2' footings for columns since that whole wall will likely open to the existing house.

• • b:(july 25- 31) (crew of 4, 9 hr days, 8 days)

Frame roof windows tyvek.

• phase 2: move to f1 bedroom

Create 1st floor bedroom, move into it. You can do this since south side of the existing roof isn't getting changed. Well actually it is getting changed a bit. Forget it. It will take to long. Move to basement of Portland library for a week and a half.

• phase 3: (August 1-21) connect and finish the roofs.

• • Take off roof from south side of stairs north. demo and cleanup 1.5 days (I'll be at beach)

• • Put in the south hip rafter beams. There will be a hole on the ridge to pick up the support for the hip rafter running from ridge to new structure. For the section south of the stairs the new roof will just be slapped over the old. 1 day

• • Put in north side hip rafter beam and beam under gable window. 1 day

• • Frame and sheath the new east roof 1 day

• • Frame east gable and roof. 2 days

• • Complete the north and south sections and connect to addition. 2 days

• • • complete roof 5 days
    • start roofing finished sections crew of 2 while...
    • strip roof of existing 1 person while
    • dig and pour porch corner pier while

• • • frame porch roof overlaid on existing

• phase 4 (August 24-Sept 1)
  • create temporary functional living space

• phase 5: (fall/winter/spring) Tim comes for Christmas, February and April Break.
• interior framing, mechanicals, electrical,insulation sheet rock.

phase 6: (finish carpentry )

On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 2:04 AM, Tobin McKenna <tobinmckenna@gmail.com> wrote:

   Tim,

   This thing about not going full width is killing me.  I feel like if we are renting an excavator bob cat we should be able to excavate to extend that front corner out for full width. 

   If we don't, we are basically leaving space for a driveway that we don't need and not taking advantage of the width the alley affords us.  All it gives you is a side yard that's pretty useless space with a view of a big garage.

   So I guess I need you to convince me if you really think this is the wrong way to go.

   -tobin

> On 24 Jun 2011 20:11, "Tim McKenna" <mckenna.tim@gmail.com> wrote: > >