Tobin

4505 N Haight Ave 97217 (NE)

plans - corrections and additions

found-s1

• change floor and foundation elevations relative to 104'existing subfloor

x1

• show the grade as 8" below floor height at back of house

building materials&technique

foundation/slab

FOUNDATION NOTES

Hi Zac,

Tobin asked that I contact you and discuss the foundation.

It is a bit odd to be working over this distance and to be out of the Boston building scene. I was a builder for 32 years, building new houses for over 20 years. Mostly I built first-time homebuyer 2-3 story, 1-4 family urban infill housing, in 10-14 unit projects on lots vacant either by arson or the difficulty in building on them. Sometimes there were houses there before or there was garbage or peat or pudding stone or a steep hill. I worked for many different developers, architects and city agencies. We would build houses for prices my carpenters could afford. Our competition was the modular guys.

My foundation sub would run 8' walls + footings for $15/linear foot. In around 100 houses we hardly ever used anything but 10"x20" footings, occasionally 10" x 24" We built full basements mostly, 10" walls, a few rows of #4 bar, sometimes vertical @ 2' or 4' OC, occasionally we had dowels coming out of the footing into the wall.

When I got home from vacation on Sunday and got to look at a set of plans I was surprised how engineered it was. This is a little house and a small addition. This morning I went through the foundation (ch4) and wall construction (ch6) of the 2011 OR residential specialty code for 1-2 family houses. Everything seemed familiar and not so engineered.

Footings in seismic D1 need to have (1) # 4 bar horiz.lengthwise and @4'OC vertically extending 14" into the wall. The wall needs (1) #4 horizontally within the first 12" and maybe another halfway down. Looking at the braced wall panel requirements for the first floor, where we don't meet the continuous sheathing with structural wall panels (WSP) reqs, it looks like all you need is 1800LBF for the hold_downs. You can get that and more just sinking those DTT22 strap anchors 10" into the concrete and fastening to the studs through the sheathing. All if this can be done by the proverbial equivalent to $15/lf form guys, there 3 hours for the footings and a day for the walls. Tobin and/or I would be there to lay it out, shoot the grades and set the anchors.

For this job BOF to TOW is only about 26" in most cases, so with 10" footings the stem wall is from 1-3' high. In talking to you from my vacation I optimistically understood that the only real change was going to be turning the corner on the north wall to support the shear wall by the refrigerator.

With the 16" deep footings and the complex steel and the squirrelly anchor bolts that go through the entire wall and footing (and sometimes through the bottom of the footings), the $15/lf guys are out of their league. They can't really and don't want to do 16" deep footings or anything non-standard. So you have to hire the kind of guys you give the plans to and they charge you an extra $2-3K and it takes an extra couple of days. Tobin is on a tight budget and can afford neither the added expense or the time.

I'd like to figure out a more cost effective solution that you feel good about. It seems the sticking point is the connection line between the addition and the house. My initial sense was that the new condition isn't that much more unbalanced than the present condition of finish grade 8" from TOF. I was thinking 2" of foam to isolate the existing floor framing and sill from the new slab and that since the existing foundation is loaded by the house and laterally supported by the floor framing, it could easily take the compaction and the edge of the slab could be thickened to extend below the existing sill.

I wouldn't have a problem pouring a 10" deep footing across that span with a couple of horizontal lengthwise bars tied into each corner, effectively closing the loop. I don't see why most of the rest couldn't be according to the prescriptive code as described above. Under the refrigerator sheer wall I'd like to stay with a 10" deep footing but we could make it wider and add some more steel there. I'm not sure what I am missing. The addition is so small, the foundation will end up essentially with balanced backfill and there is floor 9' above tieing all the walls together.

I think this is a good design. Tobin and Laura will be happy every winter day when they step on their floor. But if we can't simplify it and make it more prescriptive and less expensive then maybe he should end up back to a crawl space and a framed first floor. I hope that doesn't happen. Talk to you tomorrow. Tobin knows my constraints, I'll let him schedule the time with you.

Tim McKenna
857-498 2574

1. ALL CONCRETE SHALL BE MINIMUM 2500 PSI
2. ASSUMED SOIL BEARING PRESSURE 1500 PSI
3. FILL UNDER SLAB TO BE GRANULAR MATERIAL (3/4"-0") COMPACTED TO 95%
4. SEE DETAILS ON S-2

Nat from Portland in green building forum on ICF's

• Amvic forms (can be gotten locally)

Jaeger & Associates

1123 South East Street

McMinnville, OR 97128

email: jgjaeger@msn.com

Phone: 503.442.5161

Hi,

I am interested in using lego blocks for a little stem wall application. ICould you give me a price(breakdown) and availability. The following is a stock list for Amvic 8"wallls

reversible blocks:

(24) straight -> 48" x 16" x 13"

(6) 90 degree corner -> [28.5" + 16.5"] x 16" x 13"

(2) 45 degree corner -> [22" + 10"] x 10" x 13"

foam gun

foam for 72 lf

Can this amount of stuff fit in a pickup? or How many days/dollars for delivery to:

4505 N Haight Ave

Portland OR, 97217 (NE)

Thanks, Tim McKenna mckenna.tim@gmail.com 857 498-2574

• Fox Blocks
• Build Block

Sylvan Construction Inc. DEALER Contact: Alan Naylor, V.P. Address: 6995 SW Juniper Terrace Beaverton, OR 97008 Phone: 503-641-2811 Fax: 770-425-8483 Email: alannaylor@msn.com

A nice radiant slab detail is shown below and further described in this site by radiantcompany.com

lumber

Robert Randall Straight talk about hip and valley rafters from jlc

• lumber prices a price list for lumber (not local)]
• map to milwaukie lumber
• map to Parr lumber

house info

• assessor maps
• zillow listing
• google map
• photos picassa

conversations

7/7

There is a new drawing B in docs. I moved the addition 2" away from the existing house and then fooled with the other slopes and ceiling heights. I made the ceiling in the new space 9', the slope 7/12 and the clear space in the corners ~4'high. The wireframe lines are all the outermost lines of the framing.

6/28

I looked at making the plan more buildable and less engineered. The idea is to make the box a 24'x24' square. Then the 4 valley rafters land on the 4 corners of the box. The corners can hold up the valleys and we will have a center post anyway. Once the framing is done and the roof is felted then just go to demo.

Take off the entire existing roof and put it in a dumpster. Say we will use the existing walls but we'll put them in the dumpster too.

Re-frame the first floor walls. Put in posts for the hip in the exterior walls Frame a new front gable as a true gable with real valleys. Frame a new roof and then roof the whole thing.Plans are enclosed. I'll revise the schedule.

6/27

Could be an interesting structure. Or impossible :)

Start thinking about it. Here's some things to think about.

As a 21' box it was kind of like the garage. For small roofs back 'rules of thumb work and a single 2x12 valley was all that was needed. I was reading last night that for every foot you extend the valley rafter the load increases to the 5th power. For the 24' box the valleys become single lvl117/8's.

In the most normal roof you keep the walls from bowing out with the ceiling joists. It gets tricky as the point load at the base of the valley gets big. (2/3) of the valley weight) It wants to push out the corners. But we should be able to make that OK with some corner strap fab.

The tricky part isn't the west valleys, its the east valleys. With the ~ 20'x24' box they land some 4' into the old structure way up in the air at the original ridge. Some how we are going to have to trussify the east edge of the stair landing to resist the movement out of the valleys (among other directions they want to go south and north).

The really tricky part is the hip rafters running from the old ridge to the new ridge. How do you keep them from bowing out? On the north side you could build a continuous post to the ridge and maybe have this structural tie from the top of the post to the stair platform just right of the stairs. That would be weird but maybe cool. The south hip is trickier as we started to see last night. Perhaps there will be a rod running across the ridge from base of south hip to base of north hip. Or maybe there is another solution or maybe its impossible.

This, it seems is the next thing to figure out.

Call me when you get a chance. Im out at 1:40

Dad

http://www.johnlscott.com/propertydetail.aspx?IS=1&ListingID=300069139

repeat of question: where is the drain?

Building an addition is way more difficult and time consuming than 'I have a backhoe handy why not'. The things that are most difficult to do in additions is make the connection to the existing structure so the floor and every thing line up and the roof works. You could frame a new house in the time it takes to detail the connection from one box to an existing structure. The house next door is ugly. You don't fix that by building to it. Its the south side. A couple of fruit trees would be more valuable as a buffer than would building a bigger box.

Critique of Tobin's plan:

Hard to talk about a plan not to scale, you got a scanner?

in general:

It seems big and boxy. Lumber is expensive. I don't think the roof over the porches fixes the boxiness.

If you don't do design development with closets, then you get in trouble later.

1st floor plan:

It is incredible to me how people end up using so little of their houses. I think it's because rooms are too big and spread apart. A home really only has one center and that's where people want to hang out. It always includes the kitchen. Here your living room area is so remote from your kitchen. The space between the woodstove and the table and the space between the table and the stairs seem too big, too uninteresting and too expensive. The dining room table is the focal point of the house. It seems odd to me.

My tendency is to think of the stair as the core of the house. Your eye move around and up.

Your structure and walls are there to create spaces. Interior walls are responsible for creating spaces on both sides. The walls of the bedroom and mudroom do create those spaces but do little (or actually work against) creating spaces in the main living area, it feels like they jut into it.

Porch seems so skinny. Even 6' seems too narrow, 8' seems better; you can fit around a table, walk by another person. The other challenge is solar gain on the south side. Ideally the overhang/roof structure shades the house in the summer but lets in all the winter sunlight. South west is more problematic, I'd rather be shaded by a tree than have sun in the summer afternoon. In winter when the leaves are gone you can take all that gain.

2nd floor:

3 new full baths? There goes most of your $30,000

The 2nd floor bath on south side is under the existing roof plan. You need to reconfigure the roof to accommodate it.

I find the common space to seem large, awkward and uninteresting.

Critique of Tim's plan:

in general:

I think the first floor plan works and the second floor plan doesn't. The second floor really needs to be 3' wider and 2' closer to the garage (still 6' away) in order to accommodate 2 bedrooms a bath a study and lots of closet space.

1st floor:

I think the main problems are what feels like inefficiency of the space outside the bathroom and bedroom. Perhaps the bedroom closet would be better off on the bath wall. I think you could grab more of that space for the bath.

2nd floor:

11' seems to be a better minimum for bedroom dimension, not including closets. 3' wider takes you taller too. Maybe tall enough to think of a little loft in the center.

Buidability:

The game as I see it is to build the smallest amount possible and get the biggest bang for the buck. with $35,000 you are in the business of cost optimization, big time.

If you start fucking around with adding boxes on multiple sides you'd be better off blowing up the existing house, You'll spend less time and money. Unfortunately you won't have a place to live.

Which brings me to the other constraint. How to build this while you live there so the dog and the girlfriend don't dump you before you finish it (if you ever do).

First you keep it simple. Second you keep the work are as localized as possible. Third you divide the work into

This is how I thought of building what i drew:

• plans filed day after closing

• plans approved 7/14

• phase 1: big box
  • a: (july 17-23) sub this out if you can get it done this week

excavation/foundation behind house. Probably only need 3 sides; along the existing u just need 2-3 2'x2' footings for columns since that whole wall will likely open to the existing house.

• • b:(july 25- 31) (crew of 4, 9 hr days, 8 days)

Frame roof windows tyvek.

• phase 2: move to f1 bedroom

Create 1st floor bedroom, move into it. You can do this since south side of the existing roof isn't getting changed. Well actually it is getting changed a bit. Forget it. It will take to long. Move to basement of Portland library for a week and a half.

• phase 3: (August 1-21) connect and finish the roofs.

• • Take off roof from south side of stairs north. demo and cleanup 1.5 days (I'll be at beach)

• • Put in the south hip rafter beams. There will be a hole on the ridge to pick up the support for the hip rafter running from ridge to new structure. For the section south of the stairs the new roof will just be slapped over the old. 1 day

• • Put in north side hip rafter beam and beam under gable window. 1 day

• • Frame and sheath the new east roof 1 day

• • Frame east gable and roof. 2 days

• • Complete the north and south sections and connect to addition. 2 days

• • • complete roof 5 days
    • start roofing finished sections crew of 2 while...
    • strip roof of existing 1 person while
    • dig and pour porch corner pier while

• • • frame porch roof overlaid on existing

• phase 4 (August 24-Sept 1)
  • create temporary functional living space

• phase 5: (fall/winter/spring) Tim comes for Christmas, February and April Break.
• interior framing, mechanicals, electrical,insulation sheet rock.

phase 6: (finish carpentry )

On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 2:04 AM, Tobin McKenna <tobinmckenna@gmail.com> wrote:

   Tim,

   This thing about not going full width is killing me.  I feel like if we are renting an excavator bob cat we should be able to excavate to extend that front corner out for full width. 

   If we don't, we are basically leaving space for a driveway that we don't need and not taking advantage of the width the alley affords us.  All it gives you is a side yard that's pretty useless space with a view of a big garage.

   So I guess I need you to convince me if you really think this is the wrong way to go.

   -tobin

> On 24 Jun 2011 20:11, "Tim McKenna" <mckenna.tim@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, I am looking for a room from Aug 9 September 5. My son just bought a house in NE (4505 N Haight Ave) and we are going to frame an addition. I am coming from Jamaica Plain, Boston. I built houses here for 30 years. On 9/5 I get on a plane and go back to teach high school the next day. While in Portland mostly I'll be working. I think I will bike back and forth to Tobin's house.

Tim

Timothy McKenna 12 Parley Vale, Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 mckenna.tim@gmail.com, http://sitebuilt.net (617) 524-0938 h (857) 498 2574 m

• level & stand
• nailguns 2
• hoses 2 + adapter
• two framing hammers
• pry bar
• nail remover
• chalk line
• saw
• drill
• hammer drill
• tool belt